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	<title>Comments on: Signs and Signals</title>
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	<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/</link>
	<description>Pouring bourbon on the line that separates art from trash.  And then?  Setting it on fire.</description>
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		<title>By: Lawson</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-103973</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-103973</guid>
		<description>wow, waaaayyyy late i know, sorry, but if anyone&#039;s still around i just wanted to leave a quick scribble on the whole church sign thing - which i agree with entirely the whole &#039;symbolic weight&#039; these things carry by virtue of their positioning - like the only authorised, accepted and ubiquitious propaganda our society knows. 

but, to add a little anecdote of my own, i distinctly remember a favoured family pastime of ours was driving along the highway to our town and looking out for the hilarious new pun-message that was left on our local church - the kind of stuff it often read (&quot;Feeling Down? Come In For A Free Faith Lift!&quot;) is kind of like a welcome reprise from everything you&#039;ve mentioned - like christianity recognising and admitting that it&#039;s literally one big joke and just rolling with that, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, waaaayyyy late i know, sorry, but if anyone&#8217;s still around i just wanted to leave a quick scribble on the whole church sign thing &#8211; which i agree with entirely the whole &#8216;symbolic weight&#8217; these things carry by virtue of their positioning &#8211; like the only authorised, accepted and ubiquitious propaganda our society knows.</p>
<p>but, to add a little anecdote of my own, i distinctly remember a favoured family pastime of ours was driving along the highway to our town and looking out for the hilarious new pun-message that was left on our local church &#8211; the kind of stuff it often read (&#8220;Feeling Down? Come In For A Free Faith Lift!&#8221;) is kind of like a welcome reprise from everything you&#8217;ve mentioned &#8211; like christianity recognising and admitting that it&#8217;s literally one big joke and just rolling with that, no?</p>
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		<title>By: brd</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-4012</link>
		<dc:creator>brd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-4012</guid>
		<description>The other day I was walking to the post-office with a friend. I asked her to go to church with me for noon Eucharist the next day. Her facial expression told me more than I understood exactly, so I asked her, “Would you consider it wrong, a sin, to go to my church?” “Yes,” she said.

Curious, I said, “Do you think it is a sin for me to go to my church?” “Yes,” she said.

Curious, more, I said, “Do you think that I am redeemed, saved, i.e. going to heaven?” Air got thick. “No,” she said, quietly choking.

“That’s a problem,” I said, “isn’t it, not going to heaven? What should I do?” “Read your Bible,” she said.

I think I&#039;m in trouble. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other day I was walking to the post-office with a friend. I asked her to go to church with me for noon Eucharist the next day. Her facial expression told me more than I understood exactly, so I asked her, &#8220;Would you consider it wrong, a sin, to go to my church?&#8221; &#8220;Yes,&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>Curious, I said, &#8220;Do you think it is a sin for me to go to my church?&#8221; &#8220;Yes,&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>Curious, more, I said, &#8220;Do you think that I am redeemed, saved, i.e. going to heaven?&#8221; Air got thick. &#8220;No,&#8221; she said, quietly choking.</p>
<p>&#8220;That&#8217;s a problem,&#8221; I said, &#8220;isn&#8217;t it, not going to heaven? What should I do?&#8221; &#8220;Read your Bible,&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;m in trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: carson</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-4000</link>
		<dc:creator>carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-4000</guid>
		<description>Prof. Fury--If anyone ever catalogs &quot;The Great Moments in Blog History&quot; 100 years from now, this post with the Psalty picture should rank in the top 10.

The rest of the post is brilliant, as well. I work in my church&#039;s jr. high group, and it can be extremely frustrating, cause they&#039;re all church kids who think they&#039;ve heard everything before. So much of Jesus&#039; weirdness gets filtered out. The jr. highers (or even myself) would never think of Jesus being sarcastic and having a sense of humor. It just seems like a sad, somewhat poetic declaration delivered with those big Cavizael eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof. Fury&#8212;If anyone ever catalogs &#8220;The Great Moments in Blog History&#8221; 100 years from now, this post with the Psalty picture should rank in the top 10.</p>
<p>The rest of the post is brilliant, as well. I work in my church&#8217;s jr. high group, and it can be extremely frustrating, cause they&#8217;re all church kids who think they&#8217;ve heard everything before. So much of Jesus&#8217; weirdness gets filtered out. The jr. highers (or even myself) would never think of Jesus being sarcastic and having a sense of humor. It just seems like a sad, somewhat poetic declaration delivered with those big Cavizael eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: KoE</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-3998</link>
		<dc:creator>KoE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-3998</guid>
		<description>These last few comments remind me of a &quot;friend&quot; I had in high school who made it his goal in life to turn me into &quot;a New Testament Christian&quot; (his words - apparently, the fact that I had been raised Catholic carried no spiritual weight and made me dwell far too much on the Old Testy). Of all the illuminating encounters he and I had, the most significant were the times during bible readings when he told me that &lt;b&gt;my&lt;/b&gt; readings of particular passages were wrong. Nothing like a little Raderian exclusionism to really welcome one into the &quot;tight sphere.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These last few comments remind me of a &#8220;friend&#8221; I had in high school who made it his goal in life to turn me into &#8220;a New Testament Christian&#8221; (his words &#8211; apparently, the fact that I had been raised Catholic carried no spiritual weight and made me dwell far too much on the Old Testy). Of all the illuminating encounters he and I had, the most significant were the times during bible readings when he told me that <b>my</b> readings of particular passages were wrong. Nothing like a little Raderian exclusionism to really welcome one into the &#8220;tight sphere.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Professor Fury</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-3997</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Fury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-3997</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an interesting point, Mooch. I was just thinking of  my religious college experiences while composing a follow-up to my comment to Darren. It&#039;s true that &quot;literacy&quot; was prized among that evangelical community, but not because it meant that all that Bible study you were doing was going to result in &quot;honest confusion,&quot; as Hannah puts it, or a new encounter with the Bible, but because it was a good means of demonstrating that your &quot;Christian walk&quot; was proceeding at a smooth and regular pace. That is, there was plenty of morning, evening, weekly and Sabbath reading of the Bible, but it was a reading that was meant to shore up preconceptions long-held and to indicate one&#039;s righteousness and, to be frank, marriageability. So yeah, &quot;literacy&quot; was prized, because it meant you could check off &quot;early morning Bible study&quot; on your Christian Walk Timesheet, but &quot;analysis&quot; or &quot;openness&quot; or...maybe none of these terms are right...were not prized in the same way. That may be a characteristic of 18-22 year-old religious folk in a way that it isn&#039;t of a characteristic of Christians who&#039;ve actually lived life a bit, though.

I hasten to add that what I&#039;m describing doesn&#039;t apply to any of the evangelical folks we know in common (and who could stand to stop lurking and post a dang comment or two, people!) And I also hasten to add that this isn&#039;t a dismissal of the importance of ritual--of doing that reading, even when it seems meaningless or pointless. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting point, Mooch. I was just thinking of  my religious college experiences while composing a follow-up to my comment to Darren. It&#8217;s true that &#8220;literacy&#8221; was prized among that evangelical community, but not because it meant that all that Bible study you were doing was going to result in &#8220;honest confusion,&#8221; as Hannah puts it, or a new encounter with the Bible, but because it was a good means of demonstrating that your &#8220;Christian walk&#8221; was proceeding at a smooth and regular pace. That is, there was plenty of morning, evening, weekly and Sabbath reading of the Bible, but it was a reading that was meant to shore up preconceptions long-held and to indicate one&#8217;s righteousness and, to be frank, marriageability. So yeah, &#8220;literacy&#8221; was prized, because it meant you could check off &#8220;early morning Bible study&#8221; on your Christian Walk Timesheet, but &#8220;analysis&#8221; or &#8220;openness&#8221; or&#8230;maybe none of these terms are right&#8230;were not prized in the same way. That may be a characteristic of 18-22 year-old religious folk in a way that it isn&#8217;t of a characteristic of Christians who&#8217;ve actually lived life a bit, though.</p>
<p>I hasten to add that what I&#8217;m describing doesn&#8217;t apply to any of the evangelical folks we know in common (and who could stand to stop lurking and post a dang comment or two, people!) And I also hasten to add that this isn&#8217;t a dismissal of the importance of ritual&#8212;of doing that reading, even when it seems meaningless or pointless.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Mooch</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-3995</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Mooch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-3995</guid>
		<description>I believe evangelicalism, or at least my experience with it, is a system of in or out.  Just like owning the right reebok hightops in 1987, you don&#039;t want to be out and more importantly you don&#039;t want others to think you are out.  Look at your uncle&#039;s quote, about &#039;not interpreting&#039; the bible.  It is a REAL (if, i think, made up) notion that once you&#039;ve been bathed in the blood of the lamb, come to jesus, born again, etc. et al...well, then the word of god is REVEALED to you.  you GET it.  if you don&#039;t get it, well you might not be really saved now, huh?  It facilitates an elementary understanding of a complicated theological work.  moreover, it works to deny an intellectual challenge to 1 dimensional understandings of the bible.  If you don&#039;t get it like I get it, you must not be a good christian.  Of course evangelicals  took up this mantle hundreds of years after Catholics perfected it in some of the bad old days of the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe evangelicalism, or at least my experience with it, is a system of in or out.  Just like owning the right reebok hightops in 1987, you don&#8217;t want to be out and more importantly you don&#8217;t want others to think you are out.  Look at your uncle&#8217;s quote, about &#8216;not interpreting&#8217; the bible.  It is a <span class="caps">REAL </span>(if, i think, made up) notion that once you&#8217;ve been bathed in the blood of the lamb, come to jesus, born again, etc. et al&#8230;well, then the word of god is <span class="caps">REVEALED</span> to you.  you <span class="caps">GET</span> it.  if you don&#8217;t get it, well you might not be really saved now, huh?  It facilitates an elementary understanding of a complicated theological work.  moreover, it works to deny an intellectual challenge to 1 dimensional understandings of the bible.  If you don&#8217;t get it like I get it, you must not be a good christian.  Of course evangelicals  took up this mantle hundreds of years after Catholics perfected it in some of the bad old days of the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Fury</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-3993</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Fury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-3993</guid>
		<description>Yeah, D, that&#039;s a good point about Bible study, and my intent wasn&#039;t to tar all evangelicals with the brush of un-reading, &#039;cause that wouldn&#039;t be true. What I&#039;m talking about, and I think what Hannah&#039;s getting at, is an &lt;i&gt;extreme&lt;/i&gt; version of that &quot;tight sphere of theological and ideological assumptions&quot; within which many people read the Bible. 

I don&#039;t think that that un-reading is the sole defining characteristic of modern evangelicism, by any means, but I do think that it&#039;s one significant strain &lt;i&gt;within&lt;/i&gt; the culture--perhaps moreso in the South, perhaps not, and perhaps it&#039;s a class thing, too--that is always battling it out with the more open-minded reading that we know many people do.  I&#039;m probably conflating evangelical and charismatic theologies too much, too, but then, they were pretty well conflated in my hometown. I had a whole thing on how End Times eschatology, which looks like analytical reading, but sort of isn&#039;t, fits into this scheme and maybe is born out of the tension between reading and un-reading, but then I figured, heck, there&#039;s a reason that &lt;a href=&quot;http://slacktivist.typepad.com/&quot;&gt;Slacktivist link&lt;/a&gt; is in the sidebar, and I&#039;m not gonna say anything smarter than him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, D, that&#8217;s a good point about Bible study, and my intent wasn&#8217;t to tar all evangelicals with the brush of un-reading, &#8216;cause that wouldn&#8217;t be true. What I&#8217;m talking about, and I think what Hannah&#8217;s getting at, is an <i>extreme</i> version of that &#8220;tight sphere of theological and ideological assumptions&#8221; within which many people read the Bible.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that that un-reading is the sole defining characteristic of modern evangelicism, by any means, but I do think that it&#8217;s one significant strain <i>within</i> the culture&#8212;perhaps moreso in the South, perhaps not, and perhaps it&#8217;s a class thing, too&#8212;that is always battling it out with the more open-minded reading that we know many people do.  I&#8217;m probably conflating evangelical and charismatic theologies too much, too, but then, they were pretty well conflated in my hometown. I had a whole thing on how End Times eschatology, which looks like analytical reading, but sort of isn&#8217;t, fits into this scheme and maybe is born out of the tension between reading and un-reading, but then I figured, heck, there&#8217;s a reason that <a href="http://slacktivist.typepad.com/">Slacktivist link</a> is in the sidebar, and I&#8217;m not gonna say anything smarter than him.</p>
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		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-3992</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-3992</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Mark . . .

A couple years ago I read through the Gospels for the first time since becoming, you know, a welfare-loving, baby-hating, anti-American hippie, and I really got a kick out of this passage:

&quot;Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed. &#039;Where did this man get these things?&#039; they asked. &#039;What&#039;s this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! Isn&#039;t this the carpenter? Isn&#039;t this Mary&#039;s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren&#039;t his sisters here with us?&#039; And they took offence at him. Jesus said to them, &#039;Only in his hometown, among his relatives, and in his own house is a prophet without honour.&#039;&quot;

Doesn&#039;t that &quot;only in his hometown&quot; line come off as &lt;em&gt;incredibly&lt;/em&gt; sarcastic?  I mentioned to some friends that I thought for sure Jesus was telling a joke there, but they didn&#039;t buy my theory.

Great post, Prof, but how does the evangelical Bible study fit in here?  Most devoted Christians in my circle spend at least one evening a week -- and a few minutes every morning, not to mention Sundays -- studying the Bible, meditating over it, and trying their darnedest to &quot;unpack&quot; its mysteries.  Granted, those studies typically operate within a fairly tight sphere of theological and ideological assumptions, but I would go so far as to say that evangelical Christians often have a &lt;em&gt;higher&lt;/em&gt; regard for literacy than the typical American Philistine.

(Has anyone else here seen &lt;em&gt;The Squid and the Whale&lt;/em&gt;?  If not, you should, and then you, too, will be using the word &quot;Philistine&quot; in your day to day conversations.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Mark . . .</p>
<p>A couple years ago I read through the Gospels for the first time since becoming, you know, a welfare-loving, baby-hating, anti-American hippie, and I really got a kick out of this passage:</p>
<p>&#8220;Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed. &#8216;Where did this man get these things?&#8217; they asked. &#8216;What&#8217;s this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! Isn&#8217;t this the carpenter? Isn&#8217;t this Mary&#8217;s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren&#8217;t his sisters here with us?&#8217; And they took offence at him. Jesus said to them, &#8216;Only in his hometown, among his relatives, and in his own house is a prophet without honour.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t that &#8220;only in his hometown&#8221; line come off as <em>incredibly</em> sarcastic?  I mentioned to some friends that I thought for sure Jesus was telling a joke there, but they didn&#8217;t buy my theory.</p>
<p>Great post, Prof, but how does the evangelical Bible study fit in here?  Most devoted Christians in my circle spend at least one evening a week&#8212;and a few minutes every morning, not to mention Sundays&#8212;studying the Bible, meditating over it, and trying their darnedest to &#8220;unpack&#8221; its mysteries.  Granted, those studies typically operate within a fairly tight sphere of theological and ideological assumptions, but I would go so far as to say that evangelical Christians often have a <em>higher</em> regard for literacy than the typical American Philistine.</p>
<p>(Has anyone else here seen <em>The Squid and the Whale</em>?  If not, you should, and then you, too, will be using the word &#8220;Philistine&#8221; in your day to day conversations.)</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Fury</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-3989</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Fury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-3989</guid>
		<description>Thanks for everyone&#039;s feedback and insight. Gorjus, that wikipedia article about Mark&#039;s gospel is particularly interesting in light of another Barry Hannah essay--he wrote the introduction to Grove Press&#039;s recent edition of The Gospel of Mark (as part of their series of individual books of the Bible introduced by famous writers and musicians and what-not). He makes some of the same points there that he does in &quot;Maddening Protagonist&quot; about what a strange and at times apparently incoherent story Mark&#039;s gospel often is (and how he finds that incoherence, and particularly the apparent imbecility and incompetence of the disicples, comforting).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for everyone&#8217;s feedback and insight. Gorjus, that wikipedia article about Mark&#8217;s gospel is particularly interesting in light of another Barry Hannah essay&#8212;he wrote the introduction to Grove Press&#8217;s recent edition of The Gospel of Mark (as part of their series of individual books of the Bible introduced by famous writers and musicians and what-not). He makes some of the same points there that he does in &#8220;Maddening Protagonist&#8221; about what a strange and at times apparently incoherent story Mark&#8217;s gospel often is (and how he finds that incoherence, and particularly the apparent imbecility and incompetence of the disicples, comforting).</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://prettyfakes.com/2006/02/560/comment-page-1/#comment-3987</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prettyfakes.com/?p=560#comment-3987</guid>
		<description>When I read:

&quot;Quick, Verna, get the axe, we may have to chop the door down if he’s bolted it from the outside. What’s that? You say the axe is made of cheap plastic and papier-mache? Hell. See if you can salvage any of the parts to make a gouging implement of some kind. Use it on me first if you love me,&quot;

I thought you had started speaking in tongues.

But, aside from that, two thoughts:
1. Psalty!!!! Why oh why didn’t the Jews think of that? That’s the only thing my childhood was missing–sort of.

2. You must publish this type of writing in a book collection, sooner rather than later. I do not speak lightly when I compare you to David Sedaris. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read:</p>
<p>&#8220;Quick, Verna, get the axe, we may have to chop the door down if he&#8217;s bolted it from the outside. What&#8217;s that? You say the axe is made of cheap plastic and papier-mache? Hell. See if you can salvage any of the parts to make a gouging implement of some kind. Use it on me first if you love me,&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought you had started speaking in tongues.</p>
<p>But, aside from that, two thoughts:<br />
1. Psalty<img src="!" alt="" border="0" />! Why oh why didn&#8217;t the Jews think of that? That&#8217;s the only thing my childhood was missing&#8211;sort of.</p>
<p>2. You must publish this type of writing in a book collection, sooner rather than later. I do not speak lightly when I compare you to David Sedaris.</p>
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